Conversations on Love, Race & Relationships
You can listen to real couple Neha (who is Indian) and Simon (who is White) discuss race on the Kokoro Therapy Podcast. Their intimate and candid conversations explore the emotional realities, the impact of living in racialized bodies, and the limits of understanding across racial differences in a mixed-race relationship.
Episode 1: Introduction
In this opening episode, Charmaine is joined by psychotherapist Simon and his partner Neha, who works in women’s rights and international development.
Together, they begin an honest, unscripted conversation about race, interracial relationships, and lived experience. Moving beyond theory, the episode creates space for vulnerability, discomfort, and emotional truth in real time.
Episode 2: The white husband stepping into the racial wounding of his brown wife
I In this episode, Simon reflects on how he responds when Neha shares painful experiences of racism, acknowledging his tendency to intellectualize them rather than fully recognize their impact.
A racist incident involving Neha’s father becomes a turning point, revealing the emotional distance between their experiences and the ongoing work required to repair harm within the relationship.
Episode 3: The wounding of the brown wife's soul
In this episode, Neha shares the emotional impact of racism and the heartbreak of not feeling protected by Simon in a pivotal moment.
The conversation explores how racism can disrupt safety, trust, and intimacy, highlighting the imbalance between Simon’s ability to disengage and Neha’s inability to escape being racialized.
Episode 4: When love alone is never enough
In this episode, Neha and Charmaine reflect on the limits of understanding across racial difference, naming the painful reality that Simon can never fully know what it feels like to live in a racialized body.
Simon acknowledges this gap and commits to greater attunement and action. The conversation explores how love can endure difference, but only through vigilance, courage, and a willingness to respond in real time.
Episode 5: From commitment to action - don't let the baby drop!
In this episode, Charmaine and Neha emphasize that awareness alone is not enough—responding to racism requires timely, courageous action.
The conversation explores the imbalance between people of colour, who must develop survival skills, and white partners, who can choose when to engage. It calls for greater readiness, responsibility, and active solidarity within the relationship.
Episode 6: The eternal exhaustion of being a black/brown body in a white family
In this episode, Neha and Simon explore the cost of speaking up about racism within family and close relationships, including backlash, isolation, and the emotional labour of repair.
The conversation highlights the difficult choice between confronting harm and protecting oneself, and the cumulative toll racism takes on identity, safety, and wellbeing.
Episode 7: A white husband's response to his brown wife's exhaustion
In this episode, Simon reflects on the guilt and discomfort of witnessing racism’s impact on Neha and recognizing his own place within those dynamics.
The conversation explores how love and responsibility coexist with the painful reality that their relationship carries an unequal emotional burden.
Episode 8: What was I thinking? ...You weren't!
In this episode, Neha reflects on the realities of an interracial relationship, including the frustration of seeing distress acknowledged without meaningful action.
She discusses racism, family tensions, and immigration struggles, highlighting the gap between expectation and reality and the resilience required to build a life together.
Episode 9: Who wants to play soccer?
In this episode, Charmaine reflects on the hidden realities of interracial relationships and how race, upbringing, and environment shape intimacy.
The conversation explores the exhaustion of repeatedly explaining racial experience, the longing for deeper understanding, and the emotional labour of sustaining love across difference.
Episode 10: What are the ingredients to sustain a mixed-race relationship?
In this episode, Neha and Simon reflect on the joy, shared practices, and emotional support that help sustain their relationship.
Through food, movement, therapy, and meditation, they explore how creating space to process and grow together allows them to move beyond survival and build something meaningful.
Episode 11: Silence in a mixed-race couple is violence
In this episode, Neha and Charmaine examine the harm caused by silence in the face of racism and challenge the idea that remaining quiet is neutral.
The conversation highlights the emotional burden placed on those forced to speak up, emphasizing that responsibility, action, and breaking silence are essential to meaningful change.
Episode 12: White privilege keeps the white husband blind
In this episode, Neha confronts the pain and exhaustion caused by repeated inaction and apologies that do not lead to change.
Simon reflects on how privilege, avoidance, and family loyalty can prevent him from responding in the moment. The conversation highlights the gap between intention and impact, and the need for accountability and decisive action.
Episode 13: Who gains and who loses from white privilege in interracial relationships?
In this episode, Simon moves beyond intellectual explanations and confronts the fear and avoidance behind his inaction, including his terror of losing Neha.
Neha highlights the gap between awareness and action, emphasizing that sustaining the relationship requires shared risk, accountability, and the courage to face discomfort and potential loss.
Episode 14: The brown wife's sense of internalised racism : colonialism
In this episode, Neha reflects on how internalized racism and colonial thinking can destabilize identity and shape intimate relationships.
The conversation explores the tension between pride in her heritage and pressure to conform to white cultural norms, highlighting how ideas of white superiority continue to influence family expectations, belonging, and everyday interactions.
Episode 15: Ending
In this closing episode, Simon reflects on the need to move from awareness to action, while Neha shares both gratitude for the conversation and anxiety about the consequences of speaking openly.
Charmaine reflects on the trust and vulnerability shared, and the series ends with grounded hope—recognizing the relationship’s strain, strength, and commitment to continuing the work with honesty, courage, and care.